fiscal cliff debate is a tax issue and it's also a spending issue. today we focus largely on the issue of what are we going to do about medicare, a big part of the federal expenditures, an argument is this. we're here to protect medicare for seniors. period. we're not going -- we're not here to cut the benefits for seniors. we're here to see to it that medicare, which has been a program for seniors since 1964, 1965, is going to continue to be there for seniors and the benefits package there. there is changes that can be made to reduce the cost of medicare but not to reduce the benefits. we talked about many of those. and so here's where we're coming. within that area there are very, very significant savings that can be done. the prescription drug benefit. $150 billion over 10 years. other issues having to deal with keeping people healthy to extend their health care. issues having to deal with how much we pay for certain services. fraud and abuse. all of those things could add up to the potential savings -- not to the potential -- to the saving that t